Politicians’ refusal to be held accountable for Brexit is so very offensive. I’ve always thought that the biggest obstacle to rejoining is the fact that just don’t want to admit how little they knew about the UK and the EU when they waved through plans for the most irresponsible referendum in the history of voting. Everything leads back to their ignorance and failure to safeguard - even the so-called decent ones. Labour talks about making Brexit work to flatter the public it let down so badly by failing to ask questions in 2015. Now they’re planning to waste years and years going round the houses proving it doesn’t work, all to spare their blushes.
We need to clear the air massively. Thise dreadful, referendum-approving politicians should either go and make room for better, more knowledgeable, honest people, or say loud and clear what a bloody stupid thing they did. That will unblock division amongst the public and kill the beast once and for all. We need to blame those dreadful politicians together instead of each other.
I wonder what sort of referendum it would be. After 2016, I can't see any politician presenting the question as a vague " rejoin." Perhaps rejoining as a manifesto item in the GE after next, then, with the specific terms negotiated put to a confirmatory, legally binding vote.
Interesting that you should come up with the idea that Labour's promise to make Brexit work is actually to prove that it can't. I agree with that concept wholeheartedly and, to briefly blow own trumpet, have been saying so for a while. It is pretty obvious that one of the potential outcomes of trying to do something is proving it actually can't be done!
I disagree with you (and NT) and I've said this before - in science you can demonstrate that something doesn't work and that doesn't reflect on you as a scientific practioner, but it ain't like that in politics. If Labour devote their time to "making Brexit not work" then they will simply appear incompetent and will get monstered in the press and at elections. The only way to is to be honest and say that Brexit was a gigantic mistake and a gigantic swindle.
Understand your view Nick, but I don't see that happening until someone definitively demonstrates it doesn't work. Which requires press engagement and a vaguely effective campaign rather than what's passed for pro-rejoin to date. Which has, regrettably, been pathetic rehashing of "you done us wrong". It needs better and more positive spin
Hard to imagine anything worse than the current state of affairs. Personally, I'd love to see the Greens and the LibDems in the next poll going for an application for re-entry.
Peter, it's undoubtedly a way to differentiate themselves. But, again, there has to be a move away from " it's so obviously rubbish why can't YOU see it" style of rejoin campaigning to being positive about the advantages. You don't win this kind of argument by telling the other side "you're stupid and wrong " You persuade with actual factual benefits.
I agree that telling folk that they're thick is not going to help, but governing to fail isn't either. If Labour get in, and things get worse, it won't be Brexit and its inherent impossibility which will be blamed, no matter what Labour might say - it'll be the government ie Labour.
Politicians’ refusal to be held accountable for Brexit is so very offensive. I’ve always thought that the biggest obstacle to rejoining is the fact that just don’t want to admit how little they knew about the UK and the EU when they waved through plans for the most irresponsible referendum in the history of voting. Everything leads back to their ignorance and failure to safeguard - even the so-called decent ones. Labour talks about making Brexit work to flatter the public it let down so badly by failing to ask questions in 2015. Now they’re planning to waste years and years going round the houses proving it doesn’t work, all to spare their blushes.
We need to clear the air massively. Thise dreadful, referendum-approving politicians should either go and make room for better, more knowledgeable, honest people, or say loud and clear what a bloody stupid thing they did. That will unblock division amongst the public and kill the beast once and for all. We need to blame those dreadful politicians together instead of each other.
I wonder what sort of referendum it would be. After 2016, I can't see any politician presenting the question as a vague " rejoin." Perhaps rejoining as a manifesto item in the GE after next, then, with the specific terms negotiated put to a confirmatory, legally binding vote.
Interesting that you should come up with the idea that Labour's promise to make Brexit work is actually to prove that it can't. I agree with that concept wholeheartedly and, to briefly blow own trumpet, have been saying so for a while. It is pretty obvious that one of the potential outcomes of trying to do something is proving it actually can't be done!
I disagree with you (and NT) and I've said this before - in science you can demonstrate that something doesn't work and that doesn't reflect on you as a scientific practioner, but it ain't like that in politics. If Labour devote their time to "making Brexit not work" then they will simply appear incompetent and will get monstered in the press and at elections. The only way to is to be honest and say that Brexit was a gigantic mistake and a gigantic swindle.
Understand your view Nick, but I don't see that happening until someone definitively demonstrates it doesn't work. Which requires press engagement and a vaguely effective campaign rather than what's passed for pro-rejoin to date. Which has, regrettably, been pathetic rehashing of "you done us wrong". It needs better and more positive spin
Hard to imagine anything worse than the current state of affairs. Personally, I'd love to see the Greens and the LibDems in the next poll going for an application for re-entry.
Peter, it's undoubtedly a way to differentiate themselves. But, again, there has to be a move away from " it's so obviously rubbish why can't YOU see it" style of rejoin campaigning to being positive about the advantages. You don't win this kind of argument by telling the other side "you're stupid and wrong " You persuade with actual factual benefits.
I agree that telling folk that they're thick is not going to help, but governing to fail isn't either. If Labour get in, and things get worse, it won't be Brexit and its inherent impossibility which will be blamed, no matter what Labour might say - it'll be the government ie Labour.