The Knuckle Draggers of REFUK get to fill a taxi of MP's maybe. according to polls? I doubt they will actually get more than 3, a back seat's worth. I bet on them getting no more than 4.. These latest versions of the kippersUK will be found out for being lazy so and so's, hoovering up expenses and bungs or mis-spending allowances, just as they did in the EU parliament over two decades, refusing to do representative work and will find committee work too technical and taxing for them, as in the EU. Even voting will be too much of stretch. They will have the worst record as they did in Brussels.
There will be a bit of populist grandstanding for Youtube, Talk TV & GB News, if the latter two survive much longer and that will be the REFUK's big floppy contribution. If Farage is going to be allowed to take over the Tories, it would be as a rump, contracting into a racist dog whistle & little ingerlunder corner
Farage was well known at school as a Nazi thinker and baiter of other students who happened to be jewish. He supports AFD, who go back to the Nazis and National Rally (Le Pen) who trace back to the Vichy government nazi collaborators, who turned in Jewish people to their torture and deaths.
None of these fascists will make competent administrators and would be incredibly damaging and divisive, possibly causing civil war. If they ever achieve power, god forbid, that will be the start of their problems and the beginning of the end of them, unless they create dictatorships of course, a real threat.
Now Farridge supports Trump, who openly wishes to set up a partial dictatorship in USA and who sucks up to the World’s authoritarian dictators.
Why do people keep falling for one populist scam after another, instead of seeing all of them for what they are.
Ignoring the vote, I’m more intrigued with the issue of Europe. There may be many good economic, and even social, reasons for rejoining the EU, but is there not a risk of wanting to join a Europe that no longer exists. If the UK, or bits of it, rejoin it will be as part of another different Europe. I don’t see any debate about wanting to align, or not, to what the EU might be like in 10 years time. Also I’m not sure the average European really wants the UK back. And this is certainly true if what they see is just a half-hearted economic “need” rather than a full-blooded “want”. And that “want” has to start now.
It is true that the EU membership might be a different proposition in 10 years time but that could also mean it is an even more desirable choice.
Membership in the EC was already a high value proposition in the 1970 and development since then have only increased that further.
The introduction of the Single Market and the resulting ease of movement for goods, services, people and captial.
The introduction of the Schengen Agreement and the resulting ease of travel between signatory nations.
The introduction of the Euro and the resulting ease of payments within the Euro zone (let alone the reduction in cost when doing so).
And many more improvements with less wide spread impact, such as the evolution of Erasmus into Erasmus+ and the resulting eligibility of people in types of education or training other than higher education.
Given this history of improvements isn't it likely that re-joining will become increasingly easy to "sell"?
Everything is true, and it was also true 10 years ago, but it did not stop people voting to leave. My worry is that the next 10 years will be even more challenging, both economically and politically (and that means socially as well). I’m not sure the EU institutions will be able to cope, and will Member States such as France, Germany and Italy be able to evolve? The EU does not need the UK, particularly if it means negotiating with another lukewarm “where’s my rebate” government. I can’t imagine what the UK would need to do to demonstrate their good will next time around. The UK in the EU, and as an important decision maker in Europe, is in the past. We move on.
The EU is still expanding to the east with 3 more Balkan states in transition. EU leaders, heads of government and popular opinion are all in favour of the UK joining. There is no sign of various states such as Poland and Denmark needing to have the Euro or Schengen, so this would also apply to the UK. The EU would need governmental and popular support to be able to progress those and there is no sign of those.
The Ukraine invasion and energy issues are serious problems for EU countries, especially Germany with it's huge industrial base, but this does not make EU membership problematic and that applies to the UK. We are better standing together, diplomatically, economically, militarily and with the Single Market and Customs Union. My belief is that the UK would lose the rebate of course, but retain just about everything else and would recover it's lost hole in GDP and tax revenue, as well as our lost rights.
I agree with what you have written, but that logic was also valid before Brexit. My problem is that the UK will slowly continue to diverge from the EU, making it all the more difficult to predict what might happen in 10 years time. What needs to happen is a coming together based upon common interest and common sense. And I don’t see any political party playing that tune, and the politicians that will inhabit Westminster will focus on local problems, and there are many. They won’t bother to look beyond their own fiefs, irrespective of what happens in the outside world. I wish I’m wrong.
Predictions are hard, especially about the future, as Yogi Berra famously did not say. But some basic facts are available. The economic hit of Brexit will continue. "Diverging" will require some effort to create laws/regulations/standards/agreements to diverge to, an effort that remains beyond the reach of the Tory government since Brexit. Our host's core argumemt is that Brexit was and is an ideal, a return to Camelot that cannot be reached without a cataclysmic upheaval of Great Britian's culture, economy, and relations with the rest of the world. A heavy lift, in other words, that no sane person would contemplate actually making. So Great Britian remains in Limbo, dragging their feet on that divergence, promising itself solutions that can't be implemented, waiting for something to change and reality bend to its demands.
I am in niche electronics and we have the UKCA mark, which is a small international joke. There is no divergence I am aware of really. I think we could rejoin in 10 minutes if both sides agreed. The new overseas trade deals are very small issues and could be terminated easily. They are a disaster for famers, or they are essentially worse copies of what we had in the EU.
I would argue that divergence is happening all the time and in many subtitle ways. It’s natural, keeping in step takes a constant effort, like dancing. I live in the EU and have done so since 1974, and the bond real and imaginary, between Europe and the UK has never been weaker. Perhaps it’s just me, but my impression is that the average European couldn’t care less about the UK in or out.
They may be reporting less on the UK and vice versa but nothing substantial has changed. Anything that has changed is easily reversible such as the useless shallow trade deals that are mainly poor copies of the EU's, or damaging to our famers and food systems. UKCA Mark means nothing and is ignored. UK chemical manufacturers would love to go back, as would all manufacturers, farmers fisherman animal and plant related businesses, transportation, musicians and performing arts, or services that used to have fair consideration in public procurement and are mostly not in with a punt anymore. This also applies to mainstream financial services which have had a hammering and lost business to EU countries and USA, as the London Stock Exchange has lost it's mojo.
The Knuckle Draggers of REFUK get to fill a taxi of MP's maybe. according to polls? I doubt they will actually get more than 3, a back seat's worth. I bet on them getting no more than 4.. These latest versions of the kippersUK will be found out for being lazy so and so's, hoovering up expenses and bungs or mis-spending allowances, just as they did in the EU parliament over two decades, refusing to do representative work and will find committee work too technical and taxing for them, as in the EU. Even voting will be too much of stretch. They will have the worst record as they did in Brussels.
There will be a bit of populist grandstanding for Youtube, Talk TV & GB News, if the latter two survive much longer and that will be the REFUK's big floppy contribution. If Farage is going to be allowed to take over the Tories, it would be as a rump, contracting into a racist dog whistle & little ingerlunder corner
Farage was well known at school as a Nazi thinker and baiter of other students who happened to be jewish. He supports AFD, who go back to the Nazis and National Rally (Le Pen) who trace back to the Vichy government nazi collaborators, who turned in Jewish people to their torture and deaths.
None of these fascists will make competent administrators and would be incredibly damaging and divisive, possibly causing civil war. If they ever achieve power, god forbid, that will be the start of their problems and the beginning of the end of them, unless they create dictatorships of course, a real threat.
Now Farridge supports Trump, who openly wishes to set up a partial dictatorship in USA and who sucks up to the World’s authoritarian dictators.
Why do people keep falling for one populist scam after another, instead of seeing all of them for what they are.
Don't forget his sympathy for Putin!
Ignoring the vote, I’m more intrigued with the issue of Europe. There may be many good economic, and even social, reasons for rejoining the EU, but is there not a risk of wanting to join a Europe that no longer exists. If the UK, or bits of it, rejoin it will be as part of another different Europe. I don’t see any debate about wanting to align, or not, to what the EU might be like in 10 years time. Also I’m not sure the average European really wants the UK back. And this is certainly true if what they see is just a half-hearted economic “need” rather than a full-blooded “want”. And that “want” has to start now.
It is true that the EU membership might be a different proposition in 10 years time but that could also mean it is an even more desirable choice.
Membership in the EC was already a high value proposition in the 1970 and development since then have only increased that further.
The introduction of the Single Market and the resulting ease of movement for goods, services, people and captial.
The introduction of the Schengen Agreement and the resulting ease of travel between signatory nations.
The introduction of the Euro and the resulting ease of payments within the Euro zone (let alone the reduction in cost when doing so).
And many more improvements with less wide spread impact, such as the evolution of Erasmus into Erasmus+ and the resulting eligibility of people in types of education or training other than higher education.
Given this history of improvements isn't it likely that re-joining will become increasingly easy to "sell"?
Everything is true, and it was also true 10 years ago, but it did not stop people voting to leave. My worry is that the next 10 years will be even more challenging, both economically and politically (and that means socially as well). I’m not sure the EU institutions will be able to cope, and will Member States such as France, Germany and Italy be able to evolve? The EU does not need the UK, particularly if it means negotiating with another lukewarm “where’s my rebate” government. I can’t imagine what the UK would need to do to demonstrate their good will next time around. The UK in the EU, and as an important decision maker in Europe, is in the past. We move on.
One of the key differences the next time around could be that the British people are facing reality instead of fantasy.
Decades of painting the EU and European cooperation as bad had twisted many of the mentioned achievements into things better to avoid.
Once that fades, they and any new improvements will speak for themselves, as they already do for the other European peoples.
As for the other countries we will have to see.
They seem to have managed closer cooperation through many difficult times before, often strengthening their ties in the process.
The EU is still expanding to the east with 3 more Balkan states in transition. EU leaders, heads of government and popular opinion are all in favour of the UK joining. There is no sign of various states such as Poland and Denmark needing to have the Euro or Schengen, so this would also apply to the UK. The EU would need governmental and popular support to be able to progress those and there is no sign of those.
The Ukraine invasion and energy issues are serious problems for EU countries, especially Germany with it's huge industrial base, but this does not make EU membership problematic and that applies to the UK. We are better standing together, diplomatically, economically, militarily and with the Single Market and Customs Union. My belief is that the UK would lose the rebate of course, but retain just about everything else and would recover it's lost hole in GDP and tax revenue, as well as our lost rights.
I agree with what you have written, but that logic was also valid before Brexit. My problem is that the UK will slowly continue to diverge from the EU, making it all the more difficult to predict what might happen in 10 years time. What needs to happen is a coming together based upon common interest and common sense. And I don’t see any political party playing that tune, and the politicians that will inhabit Westminster will focus on local problems, and there are many. They won’t bother to look beyond their own fiefs, irrespective of what happens in the outside world. I wish I’m wrong.
Predictions are hard, especially about the future, as Yogi Berra famously did not say. But some basic facts are available. The economic hit of Brexit will continue. "Diverging" will require some effort to create laws/regulations/standards/agreements to diverge to, an effort that remains beyond the reach of the Tory government since Brexit. Our host's core argumemt is that Brexit was and is an ideal, a return to Camelot that cannot be reached without a cataclysmic upheaval of Great Britian's culture, economy, and relations with the rest of the world. A heavy lift, in other words, that no sane person would contemplate actually making. So Great Britian remains in Limbo, dragging their feet on that divergence, promising itself solutions that can't be implemented, waiting for something to change and reality bend to its demands.
I am in niche electronics and we have the UKCA mark, which is a small international joke. There is no divergence I am aware of really. I think we could rejoin in 10 minutes if both sides agreed. The new overseas trade deals are very small issues and could be terminated easily. They are a disaster for famers, or they are essentially worse copies of what we had in the EU.
I would argue that divergence is happening all the time and in many subtitle ways. It’s natural, keeping in step takes a constant effort, like dancing. I live in the EU and have done so since 1974, and the bond real and imaginary, between Europe and the UK has never been weaker. Perhaps it’s just me, but my impression is that the average European couldn’t care less about the UK in or out.
They may be reporting less on the UK and vice versa but nothing substantial has changed. Anything that has changed is easily reversible such as the useless shallow trade deals that are mainly poor copies of the EU's, or damaging to our famers and food systems. UKCA Mark means nothing and is ignored. UK chemical manufacturers would love to go back, as would all manufacturers, farmers fisherman animal and plant related businesses, transportation, musicians and performing arts, or services that used to have fair consideration in public procurement and are mostly not in with a punt anymore. This also applies to mainstream financial services which have had a hammering and lost business to EU countries and USA, as the London Stock Exchange has lost it's mojo.
Denmark and Poland are members of Schengen. But not the Euro.