I don't want a big Labour majority, being an Indy supporting Scottish Green and I think only a hung parliament will deliver indyref2, but the thought of the unpleasant authoritarian corrupt Tory party being utterly wiped out does not worry me one whit
I would also prefer not to have a huge Labour majority, but for a different reason. Labour winning huge majorities will encourage greater arrogance on their behalf and the belief that they can sustain this and keep on winning, even if they lose sooner than expected.
The greater the Tories are trashed, the harder it is for them to come back, but the harder it will be for Labour to agree the one key reform that is the key to British modernisation and widespread reform. That is proper PR voting and just to make this clear, I do not mean AV. That might have been a small reform but it could be less proportional that our present FPTP and it might have only changed the results in as little as a dozen seats.
Without PR voting and the stable sustainable coalitions that result ( look at Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands), as well as reflecting better the voters views, it would be impossible to sustain public ownership or anything else the Tories don't like. An unwarranted Tory majority government with a monopoly power can flog off any public asset to their mates on the cheap and make profits from it in far faster time than it would have taken to set up and build that public asset. In such circumstances, a 1-3 term Labour government would have achieved little that was lasting.
I'm definitely in the "hate the Conservative Party" camp, but also agree with you that I'm concerned about what a ridiculously huge Labour majority would do to our politics. Or rather, what the absence of a functional opposition would do.
But I confess that I'm still leaning towards the view that on balance it would be better for our politics for the country to witness the Tories get absolutely annihilated after all that they've inflicted on us.
Nick makes a logical but original point. But we are not looking at logic. It is the fate and careers of a bunch of Tory MP's who are so desperate not to lose the seat that about 70 of them are not re-standing. `This loses the party the incumbency factor and will cost them more seats and vote share.
There are some other useful observations. The Tories are not just facing Labour. The LibDems are 2nd in 80 Tory seats, of which according to projections, 30 odd to 60 could be won by them. The Tories have largely given up in Scotland, with the SNP also projected to lose up to half of it's seats, mostly to Labour, but a few to LibDems.
Tory MP pressure and their need to project optimism will ensure that they don't bail on throwing money uselessly around seats that cannot realistically be won. If there is a ray of light in Tory hopes it was said by a friend in the pub: "Never underestimate Labour's ability to fuck it up." With that came to mind Milliband's small polling lead overturned massively by Cameron in 2015, Corbyn's 2017 result hugely lost just 2 years later to De Pfeffel and Kinnock's small poll lead in '93 totally smashed by Major's overall majority.
Remember, 'Hope beats eternal.' Look at the US, where George Santos, discredited and expelled from Congress, is running as an Independent for the seat adjacent to the one he lost. The horror, the horror!
I don't want a big Labour majority, being an Indy supporting Scottish Green and I think only a hung parliament will deliver indyref2, but the thought of the unpleasant authoritarian corrupt Tory party being utterly wiped out does not worry me one whit
I would also prefer not to have a huge Labour majority, but for a different reason. Labour winning huge majorities will encourage greater arrogance on their behalf and the belief that they can sustain this and keep on winning, even if they lose sooner than expected.
The greater the Tories are trashed, the harder it is for them to come back, but the harder it will be for Labour to agree the one key reform that is the key to British modernisation and widespread reform. That is proper PR voting and just to make this clear, I do not mean AV. That might have been a small reform but it could be less proportional that our present FPTP and it might have only changed the results in as little as a dozen seats.
Without PR voting and the stable sustainable coalitions that result ( look at Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands), as well as reflecting better the voters views, it would be impossible to sustain public ownership or anything else the Tories don't like. An unwarranted Tory majority government with a monopoly power can flog off any public asset to their mates on the cheap and make profits from it in far faster time than it would have taken to set up and build that public asset. In such circumstances, a 1-3 term Labour government would have achieved little that was lasting.
Completely agree with everything that yoiu've said
Fascinating!
I'm definitely in the "hate the Conservative Party" camp, but also agree with you that I'm concerned about what a ridiculously huge Labour majority would do to our politics. Or rather, what the absence of a functional opposition would do.
But I confess that I'm still leaning towards the view that on balance it would be better for our politics for the country to witness the Tories get absolutely annihilated after all that they've inflicted on us.
Nick makes a logical but original point. But we are not looking at logic. It is the fate and careers of a bunch of Tory MP's who are so desperate not to lose the seat that about 70 of them are not re-standing. `This loses the party the incumbency factor and will cost them more seats and vote share.
There are some other useful observations. The Tories are not just facing Labour. The LibDems are 2nd in 80 Tory seats, of which according to projections, 30 odd to 60 could be won by them. The Tories have largely given up in Scotland, with the SNP also projected to lose up to half of it's seats, mostly to Labour, but a few to LibDems.
Tory MP pressure and their need to project optimism will ensure that they don't bail on throwing money uselessly around seats that cannot realistically be won. If there is a ray of light in Tory hopes it was said by a friend in the pub: "Never underestimate Labour's ability to fuck it up." With that came to mind Milliband's small polling lead overturned massively by Cameron in 2015, Corbyn's 2017 result hugely lost just 2 years later to De Pfeffel and Kinnock's small poll lead in '93 totally smashed by Major's overall majority.
Conditions for Tory defeat:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/04/rishi-sunak-conservatives-tory-defeat#comments
Remember, 'Hope beats eternal.' Look at the US, where George Santos, discredited and expelled from Congress, is running as an Independent for the seat adjacent to the one he lost. The horror, the horror!