Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Nick Wray's avatar

I can't recall exactly what the context was, but I remember ueber-Brexiter Ben Habib on Question Time saying that something that the govt wanted to do that broke international law was "not necessarily illegal in the court of public opinion". That's the giveaway - in the populist's mind there is a higher set of laws, or values, which are not constrained by either formal laws or democratic processes, but exist outside of them, transcending what we would usually see as the framework within which society functions. So, for example, the Brexie populist sees no contradiction between arguing that the 2016 Leave vote was inviolable and can never be overturned, whereas the 1975 (? I think) ref which endorsed the UK's place in the EU has no validity.

Expand full comment
ParcelOfRogue's avatar

Opinion of the week. ( The Independent )

Sir Ed Davey:

“We want Britain to be back at the heart of Europe, but we’re also realistic that’s going to take some time.”

Much as I like the idea of the plucky LibDems manning the barricades and calling for rejoining the EU, he and Starmer have the FPTP electoral system to cope with. There may still be a Leave majority or near majority in Labour's target Red Wall seats and the LibDems old heartland of the West Country, plus the Carshalton & Wallingford seat they use to hold. Too much banging on about re-joining would be more likely to lose support than gain it in those seats and they have to try to win under the system that exists.

In any case, the EU is not going to allow the UK fully back inside the EU until the Leave disease is fully purged from the British political body. A Tory Party that remains hard right, dominated by Ayn Rand fairy tales about extreme free markets, sympathetic to disaster capitalism, fencing Russian hot money and exporting the capital of the wealthy to ex colony tax havens, is probably not an acceptable situation for full EU membership because they might just take us out again.

The Business Dept ( incorporating the Board of Trade) or Foreign Office will tell you that there is no such thing as Free Markets. Markets are actually rather like the rules of the road and these are different in many countries. I rather think that our so call elected representatives should be re-educated and made to see how the real world works, preferably with the aid of a ducking stool: "What's that Mr Mogg...didn't you want Singapore on Thames"

The acceptable UK Outcomes that would enable full EU membership:

The Tory Party implodes and is obviously, electorally a spent force for the forseable future. ( This might happen - great! )

The UK adopts a system of proper Proportional Representation for General Elections that prevents unwarranted monopoly power for the Tory Party and anyone else. ( Not impossible as Labour have just appointed a Minister for Democracy who said PR was long overdue in 2020. But Labour ratted on apparent promises of AV+ in '97, took the votes anyway and here we are again! )

The Tory Party is beaten in the next year, most of the recent ministers are gone and with a struggling economy, the rump Tories gradually come to see the error of their ways and adopt a Re-join policy. ( this is more than possible but would likely take two General Election losses plus a period of reflection.)

None of the above can happen quickly and generational shifts that are 80% pro EU will all take years. So there is no point of Starmer or Davey fighting that ghastly battle again, only to lose some little Ingerlunder nutter and Daily Express/Mail & Sun reader votes.

Expand full comment
13 more comments...

No posts